That New York Groove: 90-Minutes with Victor Simonelli
A deep dive with a true legend of house music
Welcome back to Music Is The Answer. I hope you’ve had a great week. My newsletter schedule is full so I’m putting out one a week all the way until mid-March. That is a great feeling, I must say - even more so because it’s all high quality editorial.
I put out a mass email earlier this week, to share with a bunch of people that I am “going big” with the newsletter. Around sharing that news, I’ve been thinking a lot about how to encapsulate what it is I’m doing here, the intention, the energy I want to put into my work and out into the world. It’s really important to me that I put my heart into this, and do it earnestly, because that’s what music deserves. It’s never let me down. A lifelong companion. The answer, as the name of this newsletter (and a bloody great tune) states. My overall intention is to share my deep love for music, and showcase the people involved in it. Always with a personal touch.
I’ve become an expert interviewer and storyteller through two decades-plus of frontline journalism. So I’m channeling that into Music Is The Answer. The main features are always going to be long-form, with smaller chunks of insight, recommendations, reviews and news to accompany them. This is an extension of me and what I’m all about - love, heartfelt action, positivity, connection, fun, joy, and unwavering passion for music.
On that note, this week’s lead interview is extra special. I’m so hyped to be sharing this one. Over the past year or two I’ve been on a biiiig Victor Simonelli flex*. So many of his tunes have been with me for a long time and, as I dug deeper into his discography, I found more and more gold. I tagged him in a couple of Stories on Instagram and he replied to one to say thankyou. We had a few exchanges and I plucked up the courage to ask if he’d be keen for an interview. He said yes and informed me he’d be in the UK late November. He was in the north for most of his time here, but had a night’s stay at Gatwick Airport before flying back to New York. So I made a four-hour-plus round trip to go and spend a couple of hours with him. It was such a fanboy moment for me, and a joy to be able to speak to him about his life in music.
*See me gush about Victor during my appearance on Talking About My Records with Cassy at ADE!
A key piece of research for this interview was a podcast Victor did with his friend, and fellow New Yorker, Lenny Fontana, in 2021 (Part 1, Part 2). It goes deep into many aspects of his life, so I recommend having a listen.
To make this extra special, I’ve also recorded a mix of Victor Simonelli tunes, which you can find below or link to here. There were so many to choose from and I’ve selected a few of my favourites. So I hope you enjoy!
Many thanks to Victor, a total gent and true legend of house music. Big love <3
**I’ve also prepared some additional content for the newsletter, which you can access here. You’ll find a couple of album recommendations, a few mixes I’ve been rinsin’ lately, some news about Gen Z’s connection to vinyl and One More Tune**
Support and engagement are my rocket fuel, so please show some love where you can. It means a lot to me.
When I was doing my research for this interview, I listened to the podcast you did with Lenny Fontana and it was fascinating. I knew little bits and pieces about you, but it was lovely to hear more about your story. Where I wanted to start though, is what you're up to nowadays. You’re on your way back to New York after spending time in Leeds, where you said you were finishing up a track?
Yeah, I was working in the studio in Leeds. I have a friend there, Scott Lees. He also goes by the name of Groove Technicians and has a studio up that way, I work there quite often. If I go back chronologically, what I've done over the last few weeks... Before Leeds I was in Italy, before that I was in Albania, and before that, I was in Asia. I was in Sri Lanka. Also Australia. So there's been a lot of gigs going on and production, too. I have all my labels… You know the names?
Yeah, there’s Big Big Trax, Bassline…
…West Side Records, Brooklyn Trax, Stellar Records and Unknown Records. I'm always working on tunes for my labels. Some of the recent releases include Ann Nesby ‘Get Your Thing Together’, with a remix by Jonny Montana. I have a new mix of, ‘I Know A Place’ by Ryan Briggs City Soul Project. Those are the two latest. And then I did this compilation with a friend in Iceland. His name is Tommi White, he has a brand called Positive Vibrations Reykjavik. I went there about a year or two ago for the first time.
Nice, what a beautiful country.
Yeah, it is. He's doing these events there, and he's also arranging a gathering. Similar to… I don't know if you've been to Vocal Booth Weekender in Spain?
No, I haven’t actually...
That's where I met him. Kinda like Winter Music Conference Miami, or ADE in Amsterdam. He's arranging something like that in Iceland for next year.
I went there way back in 2010, for 36 hours. But I wish that I'd spent more time there, because I saw the Blue Lagoon and some other sights, but I would have loved to have seen more of the country outside of Reykjavik. Driving through all the terrains feels like you're on the moon, because it's just so different.
You took the words out of my mouth, feels like another planet.
Big time! So you’re keeping busy, which is really nice to hear.
I am yeah. As I keep doing what I'm doing, I just can't help thinking of people I came up with, or I started with, and it's unfortunate that many have stopped. I know it's a difficult road. If I would have stopped, I would have missed out on a whole lot. I think it's important to get through the tough times as best you can. What I'm trying to say is, there's light at the end of the tunnel and I found that through the ups and downs.
In that interview that you did with Lenny, it seemed to be a difficult time. It was March 2021, so we were still in the midst of lockdowns and all of that. So not only a tough time professionally for you guys, and for all of us in many ways. People close to you had died, like Angel Moraes.
I know, wow. It was really sad. I can't believe it. Yeah… There were several. We’ve gotta thank God that we're here.
How have you kept yourself motivated when people close to you have died, or just gone on to other things?
That's a very good question, you’ve got me thinking. The first part of the answer would be just the love of music that keeps me going. I really, truly love it. I'm a musical fan first. Even if I go back to my younger days, when I was first getting into collecting, I often found myself alone because I couldn't find a lot of people that put they’re all into it like that.
I knew you were gonna say that, it's so similar for me. There are people in this world for whom it becomes so all consuming that it’s simply who you are, and it’s deep. And there are people around you who listen, passively to a degree, and they enjoy it. Or they go out and they enjoy themselves, but they just don't have that same depth of connection. That intensity of wanting to have more of it and more of it, and to know more about it. Then it just becomes you, and you just become that person, the music person.
You describe it better than I can! It's so, so true. As you were saying that, I remember friends that, for a period of time in their lives, maybe they got into it. But it seemed like maybe that was a passing thing. Or, often, people wanted to go out and do things, friends would call me up and it's great to be around friends. But there were times I was so into what I was doing musically that I just had to pass on those things. I've found myself on that musical road and journey for most of my life.
It might sound a bit unhealthy, but sometimes you don't necessarily need to have people around, because music is the companion. You get some kind of human connection through the audio, because there are voices, or there's emotional expression that's coming through.
That’s so true. Wow, wow… It really is, isn’t it. You've heard it said that you leave the interpretation to the listener. So it's amazing how it could affect each person differently. And what you just said there is very meaningful. It's so true. You really could go on sort of a self journey, but it's not a self journey because it's someone that made you almost feel like you got to know them better. There's a lot of levels to that.
The reason why I asked about motivation is through learning about your story with Shakedown [Arthur Baker’s New York studio] and how dedicated you were. Even before you ended up there, phoning up other studios or knocking on doors, getting lots of “No's” and going through the rigours of the internship that a lot of people went through back then. You're there making yourself available and just doing whatever you can to be in that environment. Some people out there that would be like, “I’m absolutely not doing that. I want a paid job!”.
Part of success is exactly that. It's being dedicated to it. I’m not saying this to toot my own horn but I'll find myself in situations where I’m walking from a train station to the airport in the middle of the night, in the middle of nowhere, just to get to the next location. What I'm trying to say is, I'm doing things that many other people would not want to do, and that's a big part of why I'm still doing it. This is a part of it that's completely aside from talent. It’s nothing to do with talent, really. This is just commitment and dedication. So if people ask me, “What do I suggest to make it in the music business?” You've got to prepare to be homeless to make it. And that's just the start. There’s a lot of sacrifice involved and, when you're playing at a club, people don't see that. It's great, playing in the club, you get a charge, a completely natural high.
But it’s a small percentage of the experience, isn't it?
A small percentage of the experience, exactly. The crowd at that moment, they see the DJ in the booth, but they don't know what goes into them getting there. I mean that on a continuous basis.
Even the physical act of getting there.
I told you where I was before. If I narrow that down to days, over a three-day period, I was in Italy, then I came to London and I was in Newcastle. But sometimes the organisers don’t even realise what a DJ goes through before, or after, a gig. Again, we're not talking about the talent, we're talking about the physical legwork that goes into making this happen. So there's a lot of factors involved when we're talking about making it, and especially long-term. But put it this way, when I got into it, it was for the love of music. There's no other reason. I don't do drugs, I don't drink. I love music. So that's the fuel that keeps me going, regardless of what's around me. Walls could be crumbling around me, and I'm still gonna love the music.
What do you like to play nowadays? Are you in touch with many up and coming artists?
I mentioned some of the guys that have done recent remixes for me. They’re not necessarily new to the scene, but I'm absolutely, definitely into newcomers. I understand wanting to do it, wanting to get into it, and not knowing how. That could be frustrating. So I really like to help newcomers, if I can.
When you were first getting involved, it was like mid to late 80s, right?
Yes. In the studio, yeah.
The business itself has changed so much over that period of time. How's that been for you? Adapting, but also interacting with younger artists and giving them advice. So many shifts and changes that have occurred, especially since Covid. There's been such rapid change. The way that a lot of artists are expected to present themselves; having a brand, being on social media and all of that kind of thing, and playing that whole game. As we touched on just now, everyone is different - some people are built for it, and some people just aren't. There's no right or wrong there, but it can be difficult if you're a person who loves DJing but you just want to be behind the scenes.
With adapting, whether we like it or not, I think we always have to. It’s either evolve and grow and change with the times, or just get out of it. There are two options there. Even if you don't like the changes that are occurring, if you want to continue doing this as a business, it's important to embrace them and get to know them, and master them. This life is a learning experience. I think it's important to understand that there's positives and negatives about the new ways of doing things. Some of the new ways that have come about in the last 10 years are amazing. I’ve been getting more into streaming. As I monitor the income - because I have a large catalogue of music - as I monitor that, seeing where that income is coming from, most of it is from streaming, which is something I'm still getting familiar with. Spotify and YouTube, and various streaming platforms. It's very interesting how that generates income for songwriters and publishers.
In regards to advice to newer people getting into it, the first thing is, you want to learn how to protect your material. In the UK there's PRS and MCPS. Registering your material with these societies is important. In America, it's ASCAP. We also had something called the Harry Fox Agency that's changed to MLC (Mechanical Licensing Collective). So registering with these collection agencies is vital.
You did really well with maintaining ownership of your rights, didn't you?
Definitely, that's really important. I may be overprotective, so there's positives and negatives to that, too. I've had offers where some people would probably say yes. But when I think about the long term - I have children, I have a family - I just wouldn't want to sell my material short.
It makes perfect sense.
It does in a way. Although there's many sides to it. There's a lot of ways you can look at it.
For me, this is just my personal opinion, but I think some people in this world can lack long term vision, and that is often to their detriment. They'll be presented with X contract that offers them X amount of money, but you have minimal rights over your music. “Well, this is going to set me up for life”. But how long is a piece of string, right?
Exactly.
Whereas, if you think about longevity, and not just for your own life, but, like you say you've got children, - that's your estate. There's far more value in that, even if it may not necessarily be the millions now. It's the long term kickback.
If you want to compare it to real estate, it's a respectable comparison, Real estate can grow in value over time. It could also lose value. Long term vision is very important. If you compare it to an artist who's looking at a blank canvas, or a sculptor who looks at a rock and already sees what they're going to create… From the start, I knew what I wanted to do, and the obstacles just seemed like bumps in the road. Those are things I got to deal with. But if you're driving from point A to point B, you're going to run into issues on the road. Life’s not a bed of roses, and it's not just a smooth journey with anything. I think it's important to keep your eye on your goals.
My eldest son started producing four or five years ago. His name is Immanuele Simonelli. He has a label called Good Groove, yeah. He does gigs, but it’s not always easy. I look at my other two other sons, Tony and Christopher, and I see them getting into it, too. I've never sat down with them and said, “Okay, if you want to do music, this is how it's done”. But I see them gravitating towards doing it, so I am giving them advice, the best I can. But I'm learning, too. We're learning together.
That's brilliant.
I get a lot of knowledge from them and younger people too, they're seeing it with fresh eyes, and hearing it with fresh ears. It's important to be open minded.
I'm really interested in your move to Utah, from New York. How old were you when that happened?
I was around 12 or so.
But you were traveling back to New York quite often?
Yeah, because most of my family was still there. It was like going away to boarding school.
In the interview with Lenny, you mentioned that time deepened your connection with music, and you'd pick up tapes to bring back to Utah with you. Was it people you knew recording tapes for you?
Yeah, so from my block in Brooklyn, I had two friends named John and Joey. They lived across the street. John passed away, God rest his soul. He was a good friend and a lifetime friend. My dad worked for the government. That's why I moved away, and that's a long story within itself. There were a lot of difficulties he had. I knew I was going into a new experience before moving away. I remember asking my dad if they had a baseball team, coming from New York, and no there wasn't! So it was a different way of life. It was a real culture shock for me at the time. But looking at it retrospectively, it gave me an opportunity to grow and realise there are places outside of New York that exist, that are very different. So, I'd stay in touch with friends and they'd mail me cassettes.
What kind of stuff was on those cassettes?
Well, New York radio was awesome at the time. Frankie Crocker was on WBLS and then we had 92 KTU, and there was 99x WXLO, which eventually became Kiss FM. So during those years, I would go to school out there, and then I'd fly back to New York in the holidays, where I'd stay with my grandparents. During those times in Utah, I’d be getting those tapes, and that was my connection. I realised, “Wow, there's only certain places, or a certain place, where I can get this music. It's not all over”.
What kind of music was it?
It was boogie; Prelude, Salsoul and stuff like that at the time. We would call it disco back then, but this is after the disco peak days. There was some funk. This music was popular but mostly in urban areas. If you went outside of New York City, or Chicago, the inner cities, you're not going to find what I'm talking about really, or it would’ve been more difficult to find. Anyway, I saved all the cassettes, and it really helped get me through that. But I discovered the power of music, and what you said earlier about a personal journey that you could go on when listening. It just took me places, joyful places. Regardless of where I was, and if I was in an unhappy place - listening to music, I was in a happy place.
I also loved that you mentioned that New York was awash with clubs back then.
They were all over. I came back full time in ‘86. But, when I was going back over during school breaks, I'd go clubbing, even when I was younger. So even at the age of 13 or 14, I’d get the fake IDs through older friends. There’d always be someone who knew someone. You know the right people and you got out there.
Something I was thinking about on the way down here, and I didn't hear you speak about this very much in the interview with Lenny, was, were your parents aware of you going to clubs at that age? Also, what was their view on when you started getting into working in music? Were they okay with that? Especially when you were at Shakedown, working a lot for not very much money to begin with.
So, first of all, my dad got me into music because he was a collector. So from a very young age, I was listening with him and he taught me how to really experience music. I don't think he could understand that as a profession, but the love of music he could understand. He taught me what that really meant, even though he may have not realised he was teaching me that, but he did, because he acted it out and he got my wheels turning about how much there is to music. It's not just listening, he had me dissecting it, and that's just the start. In regards to my mom, she was a teacher, so she had a forward vision of what's next for me. And so in the summer of ‘85, or thereabouts, we started looking at different schools. She said, “Start considering what you want to do after high school”. I didn't like high school. I really didn't.
Why not?
It was boring. I knew what I wanted to do - music. I knew that, and high school was just boring. So anyway, she took me to different schools, and she wanted to see how I was responding. We went to a few. I just wasn't feeling any of them. And I went to this one Center For The Media Arts and, after they gave me the tour and explanation, I said, “Mom, this is the one I want to go to. This is really the one I want to go to”. And she said, “Okay”. My grandparents helped pay for that. It was fairly expensive. Thank God I had them. So I went there after high school, that was in 1986, and that's where I learned about audio engineering and tape editing. And around that time I was already thinking where I want to go after I’m done, and that's where Shakedown came to mind. The Latin Rascals were very active. DJ tape editing was a big thing.
I actually looked them up off the back of hearing about them in your interview with Lenny. I'm really impressed with their work history. They did a lot, didn't they?
Did you hear some of their mega mixes?
Yeah, unbelievable what they did with tape.
While I was going to school, they were on air, and also someone by the name of Tommy Musto. He was on the radio with his friend named Tommy Sozzi, they were known as the Dynamic Duo. The Latin Rascals are Albert Cabrera and Tony Moran. So I knew Tommy was from the neighborhood in Brooklyn and I tried to look him up but I had no luck. There was a magazine called Dance Music Report at the time. In the magazine, there was an ad for the Latin Rascals, I might even still have it. The number on the ad was for their services. So I thought, “Wow, let me call that”. I called it, and it was the number for Shakedown and Tony answered. I was shocked that he answered, but I was happy it was him, that was for sure. So I asked him a question, just openly. He was very friendly. He answered all my questions, and he said, “Anytime you want to come up, I’d be glad to meet you”.
That's so cool.
It was. So when I finished school, I went to Shakedown to get the job, and that was in March, 1987.
And how long were you working there for?
Well, when I went in March ‘87 I was turned down. I called every week trying to get the job, just as an intern, for free. And finally, December came around and they said, “Yeah, come on in”. And I went, “Oh, wow!”.
From March to December, I just took to making money. I was working at a supermarket, then I worked at a gym. Just odd jobs. But hey, whatever you need to do to make a living. I was living at my grandparents’ place in their basement. I got set up with DJ gear, and they were very supportive. I’ve been really blessed.
Were you still going out quite a lot?
Definitely, absolutely.
Where were some of your hot spots back then?
Zanzibar was awesome, and Mancuso’s Loft, that was in his apartment at the time. The Roxy, which became 1018. There was The Tunnel.
I guess each one was kind of different in its own way. But are you able to give me any idea about what the atmosphere was like for someone like myself. This is way before my time and I just fantasise about these places. I hear the name, or maybe read an interview with somebody who talks about being there or playing there, and I’m trying to paint this picture in my mind of what it was like. Would you be able to take me there somehow?
Yeah, I mean, we spoke about The Loft and that was in Mancuso’s apartment. So, first you had to know someone to be able to get in. And I did that. I knew someone that was going there, that took me. Do you know how a loft apartment is laid out ? It's just a big open space. So you walk in the front door, with a table there at the entrance, and you give, I guess, what they call a donation. Then you walk into this open space, and you're looking at the loft apartment. Way over at the back was his bed, and there are people sitting and hanging on the bed, just like he had some friends over. That's how it felt. And he had the decks set up near where I entered, so his back was facing me, and to his back was his kitchen area. He had bowls of punch out. It really felt like it was just at somebody's loft with a lot of friends. But as the night went on, and it went on until very late, it felt like even if these people weren't people you knew, they were friends. That's how warm the feeling was.
There were people from all walks of life, and all ages, various ages, not too young. It wasn't too young. Being on that dance floor, with balloons all across the ceiling, all multicoloured… When you were on that dance floor it felt like you were flying and floating. The music wasn't too loud, it was clean. He really put work into the sound system. And while you were listening, you could also talk to somebody and hear them. It's hard to imagine that, but it was powerful, clean and you could have a conversation if you wanted to. You got lost in the music. He played the songs from beginning until end. Sometimes he put some effects in between the transitions. Maybe rain or wind, or something along those lines and people would applaud each time he'd finish. It was a celebration. It was really a beautiful feeling. I can't say I've been to another event or other parties like that since. And I followed him over the years as he started to travel. The last one I went to was in London.
The last tune he played was ‘Goodnight Tonight’ by Wings. I never really got to have long conversations with him. He was a soft spoken person, and I can imagine he was just so immersed in what he was doing, I wouldn't want to ever bother him. But that night in London, we talked a little bit, and I thanked him. I just really appreciate all that he did. Awesome person and DJ. Talk about someone who knows how to experience music. Tha was a very unique event.
Other clubs we would go to... The Funhouse, that was where Jellybean played. That would attract a lot of Brooklyn, Queens and Bronx kids. I don't think that void has ever been filled in New York since it closed. New York was a very innovative place at the time. Hip hop was coming to be; funk, soul, disco, breaks, which are a part of that. It was all mixed together.
Yeah, it was a very fertile period for the city, wasn't it?
It was, it was. With graffiti, as well.
That's my thing as well, graffiti!
You had Keith Haring, Basquiat, these are people that were on public walls in public, and paddle ball courts, they’d do the whole walls. You’d walk and drive around the city and you see the art all over. Anyway, when the Funhouse closed - I think that was Louis Vega’s first gig in the city - it was called Heartthrob. There was a style of music in New York then called freestyle.
I LOVE freestyle. I discovered it through listening to some uploads of Mickey Mixin Oliver on YouTube about 14 years ago. He was mixing freestyle, with early house stuff. The freestyle songs really stood out, so I did some research and found this whole genre I’d never known about before.
Before that, it was more electro, and what Arthur was doing. I think it came out of that.
Yeah, there's a lot of heavy use of 808!
You can go back to when it was considered electro, like Shannon, ‘Let The Music Play’, ‘Give Me Tonight’. So anyway, I was going there too for a bit. Actually, I have a cassette from there, from New Year’s Eve 86 and it's all freestyle. I can't say I like a lot of it now, but back in that electro period, there's a lot that I like there.
When I listen to your music, I can hear New York, and I can't explain to you why. Similarly, if I listen to artists from Chicago, you can just get a feel of it as Chicago house. I guess it’s just the energy, or attitude of the city. I wanted to talk to you about the Brooklyn Funk Essentials mix of Critical Rhythm - ‘Fall Into A Trance’. That is such a unique tune for me. I don't think I can put it in the same class as anything else, it really has its own vibe. I wondered if you remember how it kind of came together?
I'll come back to this subject in a minute. But, in regard to what you said about Mickey Mixin Oliver and what he and others were doing in Chicago and New York… I really find it fascinating how the whole Chicago sound evolved, and how that came to be. That’s a huge discussion in itself, I know, but I could say the closest thing to it in New York at the time was probably that Funhouse crowd. These outer borough locations, where we had communities that were really into this mishmash of styles. Where you would hear a Bobby O production, like ‘She Has A Way’, for example, mixed with Harold Melvin & The Blue Notes, mixed with something European, mixed with James Brown. From the tapes of that time, you can hear they were doing it in Chicago and in New York at the Funhouse, and the crowds going there were into that too. So Chicago and Brooklyn were far apart geographically, but a very similar musical background in that regard.
I love talking to people about that similarity and I love meeting people from Chicago and talking to them about it. Some of those first Chicago DJs that I've heard, I found really fascinating because they were going there, and the only people I knew that would go there would be Jellybean at the Funhouse, or just some local guys in the neighborhood who understood that concept.
Listening to those old tapes, everything just makes sense together. It's just got so much energy and soul and vibrancy about it. It's so old in one way, but a lot it sounds so fresh.
We have to give some credit to that whole entire disco period. After the 70s, before the term house music came about, those guys were playing a lot of that and it seemed experimental. I don't think the people that were doing that, that were making that music anyway, even realised, or cared, they were just getting on with what they were doing and loving it. Then you could hear how that influenced the creation of what became known as Chicago house. Some of those stripped down tracks, still with a lot of details to it, such a melting point. And that brings us to ‘Fall Into A Trance’, there were a lot of influences in that. Lenny Dee was who I did that with. I don't know if you've followed his career over, he's gotten into some really hardcore high BPM kind of stuff.
It's funny to see the paths you’ve both taken.
It really is. Well, we grew up in the same area, in Brooklyn.
Was it Arthur who put you guys together?
I was interning at Shakedown and he was interning down the street in Nile Rodgers’ studio, Skyline. They were both in Manhattan on the same street, but we met at a record store in Brooklyn not far from where we live, owned by a guy named Dennis Pino. I forgot the name of that record store, but he had a studio in there and I was working there sometimes. That's where I met Lenny. At some point he left Skyline and came over to Shakedown. Arthur saw us doing our thing together there, and said, “You guys are from Brooklyn. Why don't you take this name I created, the Brooklyn Funk Essentials?”. Arthur had already done ‘We Got To Come Together’ under that name, and I edited that track for him. I guess he had no intention to use the name, at least for a while, but he said he’d let me and Lenny use it. So we did. We were using that name and remixing various tracks.
So in regards to ‘Fall Into A Trance’... Shakedown was on 37th Street, and Nu Groove and Fourth Floor, which were in the same building, which was on 38th Street. Lenny was already connected up there. Frank Mendez was the owner of Nu Groove, and Silvio Tancredi and Tommy Musto were the owners of Fourth Floor. Lenny took me over there and that's how I got to know those guys and that's where we made ‘Fall Into A Trance’. But the influences involved were really interesting. A real mixture. So you do remember ‘Fall Into A Trance’ by Jimmy Ross?
Haha, I looked this up, because your remix actually really means a lot to me. So I've done a bit of research purely for my own personal self satisfaction, and I saw that Jimmy Ross ‘Fall Into A Trance’ had been mentioned as being a precursor of some kind?
If you strip that down, it's a very soulful record. It was remixed by Hippie Torales, who is a great DJ. I'm a big fan of his, and he was a DJ at Zanzibar before Tony Humphries started there. I was a big fan of that record.
So it came out in 1989? Which is incredible to me, because I can't believe something like that was made in 1989.
Thank you. Well, let’s take a look at some of the influences. So I mentioned Jimmy Ross. The Orb and The KLF were really hitting hard at the time in ‘89, even ‘88 probably, and those records were coming to America as imports. I had never been to England. Well, apart from a flight connection when I was about 15. But I didn't get to experience it musically. I. And I didn't get to experience any place outside of America, musically really, when I made - my only “international experiences” were through records and imports. So I could only imagine what was going on over here at that time. But I love the sounds of those at that time. They were really ambient, they really took you on a journey, and Lenny was really into it. Shortly before that, or after that, Lenny made his first trip to England. It was right around that time, so those English influences were coming into New York. You're going to hear, I don't know if it's in all the versions, but there's this voice of a hypnotist…
Yeah and that's why I originally thought it was by people from the UK, because I heard the sample and the guy sounds English.
So a little background, which still blows my mind. We talked about when I lived in Utah, right? There was a hypnotist that came to my school and gave a demonstration of hypnotism on stage for the students. He called different students to the stage, and I was one of them. He claimed to be able to hypnotise us. I saw what he did to the other kids but, in my opinion, it didn't have an effect on me.
What was he supposed to have been doing to you all? Getting you to follow his commands? Cluck like a chicken?!
Something along those lines, putting us into a deep state of hypnotism, and when the students were snapped out of it and woke up, they didn't know where they were. Or he got them to clap their hands or raise their hands, something like that. I watched him do it to the other students but I don't think it affected me. He wanted to make my feet stick to the ground, or not be able to walk, but I just don't remember it working on me. That's when I was about 14 or 15. A few years later, when I was 18 or 19, I found a record he released! I couldn't believe it. I still have the record.
That is so funny.
It is.
So maybe the hypnotism did work!
Maybe, what could I say? So I got the record, and well, Lenny will say himself, he's twisted. So he comes up with some stuff, man, I'll tell you… So at that session, I brought that record, and then he said, “Let's put it on”. We put it on. As we were doing the production, he's just twisting the record with his finger, speeding it up and slowing it down. That's why you hear his voice go fast and slow, that's the record being spun live by Lenny's finger while we're recording, and that's what you're hearing on the track itself. So you have The KLF. You have Jimmy Ross, you have the hypnotist. And my first time, or amongst my first times at the studio, at Nu Groove and Fourth Floor, where Tommy Musto was the head engineer. Then, of course, Lenny's bringing all his influences. He was a DJ at a roller disco early in the early years before that, at a place called Roll-A-Palace, and DJ’d at so many events in New York at the time. We were bringing our different influences into that. And I think you can hear all of that. It's an interesting mix. Tangerine Dream was another one, for me, that also was an influence in the making of that track.
That's why I say it sounds so unique. Can you recall what the response was to it, when it came out? Playing it to the guys at Nu Groove, and then having it licensed to Network Records?
That's right, I'm still in touch with Neil Rushton. In fact, I've been trying to get the DAT transfers from him. He’s looking for some of the versions that we originally did. And of course, the vinyl is easy to get, but it's good to have the original mix without the crackle.
It was a good reaction. And just to show you the different influences, if you flip it over and listen to ‘It Could Not Happen’, you’ve got these reggae influences. That's all down to Peter Daou and Vanessa Daou, who was his wife at the time, and Django Thriller, a friend from Brooklyn, originally from Jamaica - he's the one doing the chatting. So, just from that EP alone, you could hear different influences. The reaction was good, but I think it was better from abroad. Let me put it like this, the DJs that I was a fan of at the time didn't have much of a response to it. It didn’t seem to be their cup of tea.
I can imagine that. In your Lenny Fontana interview that you both had lived in London at the same time, right?
Yeah, in the early 90s, we were both managed by a guy named Gary Dillon. He was a great guy, real go-getter, an agent. He had the bookings flowing. He got us an apartment on a street called Marylebone Lane. In fact, a lot of artists that he'd bring over here long term, he'd get them an apartment at this location. So Lenny and I would be there often, and it was separate units, of course, but we'd spend lengthy amounts of time here gigging, even touring, up and down the country. It was good. The first time I came over here, my first impression of England was how enthusiastic the audiences were. It was really not something I had ever experienced before. And I remember one of the first gigs was at a place called the Gardening Club. It was a small place, low ceilings, just packed and hot and dirty and dark and vibing. It was definitely memorable. And I just had people coming to me and commenting and knowing things about me that I wouldn't expect people would know. Asking me questions and sharing information about records I made and all the details about them. I hadn't experienced anything like that before. I found that really amazing.
We have a lot of enthusiasts here!
As I've become more and more familiar with this country over the years, I really don't think we'd have a scene without England. That's how powerful it is. If you take England out of the equation, we wouldn't have a scene.
One of my friends posted a story on his Instagram last week, and the track that he attached was the Afrimerican Coalition ‘No More Weeping’ - I bought that record very recently, because I love it to death myself - and I replied to him, and I was like, “Oh my God, I love this tune so much”. And he was like, “Victor Simonelli doesn't get enough props”. We had this whole thing of a shared appreciation of you and your music. I saw Colin Dale play at a party about two months ago, and he played Solution ‘Feels So Right’ and everyone went so crazy, he ended up rewinding it! It was such a moment. There's such an appreciation for house music here and a lot of people put you up there with the greats.
I really do appreciate it, and I'm thankful for it, that the music can be received that way. As a music fan, I do that myself for so many artists, and others creating as well. I understand why I do it, so to think someone would feel that way about what I'm doing is just wow. Thank you.
How have your experiences over here fed into what you do? You mentioned The Orb and The KLF with ‘Fall Into A Trance’, for instance. Are there any other artists or labels or anything UK centric that's fed into what you do?
Yeah, totally. I don't think that the whole pirate radio thing in England is spoken about enough. I think that's a big part, in my opinion anyway, a big part of why the scene is so healthy and strong and there's so many ears and minds and people into it.
That was my first point of contact. We had Top of the Pops on TV, and there was house music and rave music on there now and again. But my first real connection, when I really started to form my identity around music, was pirate radio. Like you were saying earlier about being on your own with your passion, I would be tuned in day and night for as long as they were broadcasting. I've still got hundreds of tapes recorded over my teenage years, because I just loved it so much.
You explain it and talk about it much better than I can, because I'm coming at it as an outsider. Just think of your life, and musical lovers’ lives here, without that? How would they be able to hear and find music? Yeah, they could. But it wouldn't be that easy. We don't have that in the States. Maybe in some Caribbean neighborhoods, they would have that whole mindset of pirate radio, but the frequency wouldn't go very far. I think it's a big part of why the scene is so healthy here, and has been over the years.
A lot of electronic music at that time was not considered viable for commercial stations. So it wasn't like you had commercial stations that were also playing all of this rave music, jungle or drum and bass or whatever. They just weren't really willing to entertain that stuff at all. So we had all of these people that were passionate about underground music that would go out and scale high rises, just to get their aerials up and the music out there to people that wanted to hear it. It doesn't really exist that much anymore, sadly, because internet broadcasting is actually pretty easy to do.
That's a good thing. I mean that digital radio is common and easily accessible. It's a good that people have been able to pick up on the whole concept of pirate radio.
When I was a teenager, I was very tunnel vision. I was only into jungle and drum’n’bass, and not much else. But as I got older, my taste has opened up so much. And actually I realised that the music that I was listening to essentially came from house. Once you start to understand the influences, you can only be open. The music I loved wouldn’t have come to fruition, if it wasn't for what came before.
Let's meet at that crossroads for a minute, because I'm coming from the other side of that - the time before that stuff existed. You mentioned jungle and drum’n’bass. Before that came to be known as that… how it formed and what led up to that, and watching that occur was just amazing. If I just take that from a personal production point of view, it’s amazing how people will say to me, “‘Do You Want Me Baby’ by Cloud 9, did you intend for that to influence garage?”.
Again, I thought it was by a British person, because it fits into our UK version of garage and it gets played so much here. But it was made by you, in New York, in 1992!
Isn’t that amazing. I'm a fan of Kashif and that whole style from the early 80s, when R&B and soul met synths and the whole new technology, because that was another period of musical evolution. So, for ‘Do You Want Me Baby’, that's just my early 90s mindset take on what I loved from the early 80s, and wanting to bring that BPM up and present it to a current dance floor. Then, for people to see that as an influence in the UK garage… amazing.
And it still gets played today.
I'm just so thankful. To have this kind of longevity, you can't predict that as a producer. This tune I'm working on now with Marcie Allen, you don't know what it's going to do. I can tell you I'm putting my love into it. I can tell you that I'm making something that I want to play. I'm hoping that others will like it, but I can't predict it. You think I could predict in 1992 ‘Do You Want Me Baby’ will still be getting played in 2024? There's no way.
How about sampling? It's quite a divisive art form. For me, on a personal and creative level, I think it's incredible. If I listen to Biggie Smalls, the amount of his releases that use instrumentals from older songs. Growing up on that stuff, and then realising years later, “Oh, it comes from that!”. Seeing the creativity of the producer that decided to flip that old record and make something new with it. There’s a track by Soft House Company called ‘A Little Piano’ where the meat and the bones of it are very similar to ‘Feels So Right’.
There's definitely similarity there. That was getting a lot of play at the time, all the Soft House stuff, at places like Sound Factory, where Frankie Knuckles, and, later, Junior Vasquez played. If you go back through the whole creation of that groove, before Soft House Company, Taana Gardner has a song on West End. She did two up-tempo tracks in the late 70s, one is called ‘When You Touch Me’ and the other is called ‘Work That Body’. Anyway, one of those two has a similar baseline, and another one that's really similar is a British track by the Funkmasters called ‘Love Money’. ‘Al Naafiysh’ by Hashim, too.
You've got such a well of musical knowledge in your mind.
Well, you live it and you feel it. I don't have to tell you, I'm sure you could do the same! But in regards to leading up to that whole Soft House Company groove, those two that I mentioned are definitely influences. There’s also Man Friday ‘Love Honey. Love Heartache’ on Vinyl Mania. So that whole Soft House Company groove, I don't know how they did it and how they created it but I can tell you what sounded similar before it. Similar grooves converged and, as it went into the 90s, that groove really took off. If you listen to Joi Cardwell with Lil Louis on ‘Club Lonely’, the same kind of thing.
There are tangible qualities to music, but there's something that's quite intangible. Like I said about the New York and Chicago sound - artists also have their own personal sound. The way they program their beats or their arrangements and, if you're a fan, you can just hear it. I can almost always tell when a tune has got the “Simonelli touch”…
Before creating beats, I like to go through individual sounds. I'm really a sound maniac. I really love sounds, individual sounds, and tweaking and playing with sounds. So back then, the Akai samplers were popular, 900 then the S950 and the 1000 and the 3000. I went through the process of working with those as they evolved and changed, but even now detail is very important. That's part that you described, the other side of it. That's the creating side of and how the creating is done is part of that identity in the sound, if that makes sense.
For sure, because you're putting your own imprint on everything. Through conscious choice - the sounds that you're picking, the way that you're creating and nobody else can replicate that.
Everyone has their own fingerprint, and no one can imitate their fingerprint. And it's important to remember that everyone is special in their own way.
Where's everything going? You’ve achieved a lot, you have a very big catalogue of music. You've influenced a lot of people. You've brought through a lot of people as well. With the influence and the legacy that you have, where does it all go next?
There's always new generations coming up and discovering and learning. If I just take my children; I have three sons, and I see how they're getting into it, I'd like to give them advice and help them through. Besides that, I just want to keep doing what I'm doing as long as I possibly can, God willing. I want to have a long life and to keep on doing this as long as I can.
One thing I've discovered, on the business side in recent years, is getting music into commercials, TV shows and movies, and that's really lucrative. So I'd like to do more of that, and it also opens up more ears, minds and hearts, too, to the tunes. People who wouldn't have heard it otherwise, because not everyone goes to clubs.
I'm going to new places, too. I've been to Sri Lanka a few times now. It's really awesome. I have a friend who moved out there, Kevin Fernando. He's English, and he moved out there and he’s been doing a lot.
I’ll just keep on, keeping on…
You can find Victor Simonelli on Instagram, Facebook and Bandcamp.
And all of his labels on Traxsource —> (Big Big Trax, Bassline, West Side Records, Brooklyn Trax, Stellar Records and Unknown Records).
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