Spotlight: Makino's Jordan Crowley on Blending Hip Hop & DnB at Their Next Event
Plus April's techno reviews, FINALLY!
Welcome back to Music Is The Answer, with myself Marcus Barnes. I wanted to start off by saying a huge THANKYOU to everyone who has messaged me in response to last week’s round-table with freelance journalists. Subscriber numbers have gone up, I’ve had lots of positive feedback and the support has been absolutely brilliant. This newsletter has always been about more than simply interviewing artists and sharing music. Going way back to the earliest editions, I’ve always been considerate of giving space to voices outside the standard musician/DJ demographic. Very grateful to everyone who got in touch, shared and supported in some way and even more thankful to the writers who took part.
This week’s edition is shorter than usual because I just wanted to get something out. I can often overload myself with content to share, so this week I’ve kept it simple. There’s an interview below with Jordan Crowley from the amazing, female-owned, DnB agency - Makino. They have an event this weekend with MC Verbz. I was intrigued by the hip hop-meets-DnB programming at the event, so we chatted about that, and other MC-related topics. Makino has been growing organically over the last couple of years, and I love what they’re doing, so I was keen to support them on the newsletter. Their event is taking place at one of my favourite old haunts, Notting Hill Arts Club this Saturday, here’s a link. Big shout to Helen Wilson, who I met at Warehouse Project last November, for making this connection. <3
I’ve finally got my techno reviews done for April, a month overdue. So make sure you head over to the reviews section to check them out and listen to the mix I recorded, too.
Also wanted to say BIG UP to DJ Mag for putting their music reviews back online. A very positive move and one that addresses some of the issues discussed in this piece I wrote back in December last year.
Dive in and look out for next week’s edition…
Interview: Jordan Crowley (Makino Agency)
So tell me about this event you’ve got coming up?
I think what we're doing with Verbz is quite exciting. Are you familiar with him at all?
Not really, no.
So he originally came from a hip hop background. He's fairly well known and does a lot of work with Mr. Slips. They've got their own project together. He's also moved into drum and bass, so he sits in a really interesting space where he's championing both scenes. You can see the crossover starting to happen between them. Musically, it's really interesting. With this event, as far as we can tell, no one else is doing anything quite like it right now.. but we could be wrong. The format starts with hip hop and gradually moves into drum and bass. As an event concept, it works really well in theory. Should be wicked. We've got DJs and the pace is going to build, becoming more drum and bass focused as the night goes on. We’ve also got vocalists running throughout, which is another key element - putting the emphasis on the hosts and vocalists instead of it being purely DJ-led. That alone makes it feel different. Verbz is a strong name. He's one of the few vocalists out there right now who people want to book first, and then figure out the DJ later.
So how did it all come about in the first place? How did that connection happen, and how did you start formalising the idea of the night progressing in that way?
Yeah. To be honest, all of the musical inspiration came from Verbz. He's the one who curated it. He came up with the idea. We've just supported him. It's purely his concept, but I think a lot of it comes from the space he sits in. He's finding more and more of a voice and a sound within both scenes. But yeah, it's all through Verbz. We couldn't take any credit. We're just here to support it.
What do you think about the connection between hip hop and drum and bass?
I think there are two sides to it. Musically, it works really well. And if we're looking at the UK specifically, there's something about the scenes and the timing of when both came up. Think about someone like Bailey—he started in hip hop, then moved into drum and bass. There was a time when drum and bass was emerging and hip hop was already dominant, so there's a strong link there. Energy-wise, the two have a similar feel. Even the styling - streetwear, skateboarding, that kind of culture - there's crossover between drum and bass and hip hop crowds. More and more, you see people who are genuinely into both. So it feels like a natural fit for the kind of audience we're trying to reach.
Yeah, definitely. For most of my life I've been involved in graffiti culture, and a lot of guys and girls that I know were going to drum and bass things and hip hop things. Even just going back to the early days of jungle and drum’n’bass, a lot of the breaks come from hip hop. Also, there was this little pocket of jungle or drum and bass, whatever you want to call it, where there were people like DJ Trace and DJ Tonic using a lot of hip hop vocals and samples. I really loved all of that. Tonic on a Saturday on Kool FM was wicked.
There's definitely something happening. Dogger, who has the Precinct label, he’s a friend of our agency, Makino, and he's based in Manchester. He did a drum and bass cypher recently, which he’s been sharing on his socials. For them, the DJ and vocalist are equally important. It’s a really interesting way of presenting drum and bass DJs and MCs. bTheir vocalists have got hip hop flavours to them, so putting it all together just makes sense.
I wrote a piece for Mixmag, which was titled, "Why Dance Music Should Pay More Respect to MCs" because, historically, there's been quite a lot of neglect. They were almost like second-class citizens on lineups, if they were featured at all. It was interesting because I spoke to a lot of different artists, and what came through quite strongly was that MCs were almost put into two different brackets. There was the “rave MC” that was doing the circuit every weekend, and they might not necessarily have as much respect because they're just there on the circuit. Whereas when you start putting out recorded material and you're moving into the “artist” bracket, that's when you maybe get a bit more respect. When you really break it down with drum and bass, garage as well… there are lots of electronic music styles that wouldn't be the same if they didn't have MCs.
Oh 100%, the scene would be completely different as well. They drive a crowd - obviously the DJ does - but their ability to direct the journey and choose the direction people are going in, and even drive the DJ, in terms of their energy, they play such an important role. We are seeing a bit of a shift. I think some of our MCs and our vocalists are particularly strong, so we've got a good setup. But sometimes you'll get requests for MCs where it's like, “Is anyone free this weekend?” And you're like, “How are you just thinking of this now?” Or, equally, where they'll ask for an MC, and then you look at the pairing, and it makes no sense for anyone. They've just been like, “We need to book an MC”, or “We know that name, we'll put them with them”, when it doesn’t make any sense. It's quite an awkward position for an MC to be in, if they don’t immediately gel with the DJ.
I grew up with reggae, dancehall, hip hop, etc. So I've always been accustomed to MCs. But there is this thing that some people have where it's like, “Can they stop just talking over the music all the time?”. I understand. Because there are some MCs that are a bit more rogue. I think it's quite egocentric. All they want to do is to be over the music all the time. They don't give the music the chance to breathe and it's all about them. I guess it's just ignorance, and maybe a lack of experience and professionalism, sometimes. But then the whole culture of MCing gets tainted, because some people experience that and they just think that's what all it’s about. Or you see these parodies, or clips of young kids just going “mner-mner-mner-mner” over some crappy beats. So I get and I don't necessarily judge anyone that doesn't like MCs, but I think that there has to be a basic understanding that they are an integral part of the culture and there are some MCs that are just way better at the role than others.
I definitely think that there are more promoters recognising that as well. So there's more of a demand and they're willing to pay a bit. There's a move away from being like, “Oh, we need an MC, we're going to chuck 50 quid at this guy that just does it. Now they'll hand-select the person. They will deliberately choose a person that's going to be in line with their night and the deal might be a bit bigger, because it’s going to completely change the course of that night. There's definitely a shift in that sense. I've seen some awful MCs, too. It does seem to be less and less though.
I remember being a teenager, and there were certain people that thought they could MC because they just do all this skippy stuff, all this standard generic kind of thing you'd expect. They thought that, just because they could say a load of rhymes really quickly, that' they were a good MC. But it's so much more than that. That's part of the crux of the piece I wrote. It was about understanding the nuances and the intricacies and the complexities of being a great MC, versus just being someone that can pick up the mic and just go “mner-mner-mner-mner” or “olly olly olly!”.
Yeah, the timing is really important. Knowing when to let the music breathe… there's so many different elements of it. You can see when a DJ and an MC click, and they're like, “This is great, we need to keep working together”. We work with Monrroe and Duskee, they're quite an iconic one. But if you look at Verbz & Zar who are coming through with their own project now, there's certain duos that have just been like, “Oh God, this works”. They've got such vibes between them, it’s electric and the crowd can feel that.
How's it all going with Notting Hill Arts Club?
Good, yeah. We've had three events now, two part of the series, and then Bailey had an EP launch separately which was an event with Sun & Bass that wasn't officially part of the Makino x NHAC series but was still at the venue. But yeah, they've done well, packed. The venue's been great, the sound system's amazing, and we're definitely going to do more with them, we’ve actually got our next event coming up on the 14th June; Verbz & Friends, fusing Drum & Bass and Hip Hop in true Verbz style. He’s curated a line up covering both genres, it’s pretty special.
We're looking at how we can work together more. People love it, and it's got such an iconic heritage. The venue's got such rich history. Have you been there?
Yeah, I used to spend a lot of time there back in the early 2010s. I worked for The Sun newspaper for a while, doing showbiz and music and stuff, so I'd be down there all the time, because so many people from the music industry would be there.
So many people. The more we look at it, we’re like, oh, here's a picture of Lily Allen, or some other personality.
Yeah, everyone would be there. It was lovely. I saw people like Mike Posner when he was just breaking through. Tim Westwood played there, loads of people, and it was nice because it's quite intimate. You'd have really big artists performing to 250 people.
Exactly. And it's really interesting. I was talking to someone this week, when I went in to meet them, and we were like, “Can you think of any other venue this size that's actually doing really well right now?| Because of how the club scene's moving, there's been this wave of mega clubs, and then big ones, and then smaller stuff shuts down. But this one, the official capacity is 218. There’s not many other medium-sized clubs like this in London. The closest ones are still quite big venues. So it's just a really interesting space to be in. And I think for the artists, it's really nice for them to play somewhere that takes the pressure off. They're not being booked to play in front of 3,000 people. They can experiment a bit, maybe play a bit differently. They don't have that same pressure of playing a huge, mega club.
There's a really great interview Theo Parrish just did with RA, and he talks about Plastic People. He talks about how small it was and how dark it was, and how there wasn’t really an opportunity to escape the music. If you were in there, you had to dance. I love that. Because you go to some clubs, and this is no criticism at all, because I need space to chill too, but you can stand around chatting on the dance floor all night. That seems to be a bit of a habit now. But at Plastic People, you couldn't do that, because you couldn't really see or hear the person next to you.
That sounds like the Arts Club. They've got their little bar bit, but when you're in the other room, it's so bloody dark as well. It's great. It feels like people are in it. With the Monrroe & Duskee event – and it'll be similar for Verbz, because we’ve got so many vocalists – the way the club is spaces, the vocalists are literally in the middle of it, people dancing around them. It feels so nice to have everyone completely in.
So what does it mean for you to be involved in a space like this, especially when so many grassroots and intimate venues are struggling right now?
It’s really important. When we were looking at venues, and how it naturally evolved, it just made sense. Traditionally they’ve had strong ties to jazz and live music, and they’ve got a solid history, but we’re both invested in supporting new talent and working with artists doing something genuinely interesting. That includes both well-established names and emerging ones. We want to collaborate with more recognised artists, and give them a space where they can take risks, or enjoy a more intimate, family-like atmosphere. At the same time, we want to pair them with newer artists we really believe in, artists who are ready for the next step. It’s about giving them a platform and bringing those two worlds together. There are so many parallels between us and Notting Hill Arts Club. We’re both committed to nurturing new talent while also supporting established acts, and making sure those up-and-coming voices feel inspired and pulled through by the ones ahead of them. Everyone’s elevating each other. That’s what it’s about for us. Right now, it just makes perfect sense to be in that space.
And how’s everything going with Makino?
Really good. We’ve grown, picked up a couple of new agents, signed more artists, and the events are going really well. Which is kind of mad, because it was never something we planned from the start. We had an event in Brighton last week during The Great Escape. We did Duskee’s AirPods - so we had the i360 at sunset which featured Duskee, GLXY, SatL and Monrroe. Big names. We did a gig in the sky then followed it up with an afterparty at Volks. That featured 12 of our artists - a proper Makino takeover. It was a strong lineup and went off. So yeah, things are in a good place right now.