Newsletter Extras: 25th April
Albums, mixes, an interview, a small rant and One More Tuuunnne!
Interview: Harry Wills & Mikey Sebastian on the Success of ‘Sweatbox’
Given the way the world is now with social media, what does the term underground mean to you, with regard to music?
Harry: One way to look at it is like, “Is there even such a thing as underground anymore, now that everything is accessible to anyone whenever they like? Things might not have been discovered yet, they’re there for everyone to dive into.
What about you, Mikey?
Mikey: There are times for me, when I think about this, where it’s less about the songs, or the genres, themselves, but actually more connected to the feeling when you go clubbing in Berlin with so much world class music just constantly available to you. Being able to go to these things quite regularly, and building up a general understanding and enjoyment of music that you're never gonna hear again. I remember one of the first times I went clubbing with a friend of mine in Berlin, and I was like, “I just really want to know what this song is. I want to be able to listen to it again”. He was like, “You just have to stop worrying about that. If you spend half the time thinking that, you're not gonna have enjoyed the song when it was playing as much as you could have”.
You might not ever find this song. You might not even remember this song. The person that you ask might not want to tell you. I think that method of.. the way that you enjoy the music, the way that you enjoy the club, comes a bit closer to the idea of underground. Also being in a dance where the DJs are able to experiment a lot and mess around with music that you would never hear on the radio, or music that you would never hear in a big club or a commercial club, because some of it's a little bit pokey. Actually, some of it's almost unpleasant. It's an idea, and everyone's open. People are open to soak it up, know what I mean? That reminds me of the word underground.
It makes a big difference when you're in a place like Berlin, or maybe like Leipzig, or places where there are clubs that don't have that mainstream ethos at all. Even when people manage to get into Berghain for the first time, they're not necessarily “Berghain people” to that extent. They'll go in there and they'll be shocked and be like, “Actually, I don't even like it here”. They got attracted to the club because they heard the buzz around the name, but if they actually managed to make it past the bouncers and get in, they're like, “What the fuck is this?!”.
I love this idea because it's a question that doesn't have any real solid answer, and both of you have given different sides of it, and I totally identify with both of those sides. Sometimes I feel a bit gutted that the things that I love, that I like to keep precious to myself, anyone could basically do a bit of Googling and maybe find them. But then, on the flip side, that doesn't mean that they're necessarily going to like them, and embrace them, as much as I do. So how does it feel for you guys to have had this tune that's gone into the mainstream even though that wasn't necessarily your intention?
M: I think me and Harry will both agree that it was completely not the intention.
H: It's one of those things that you'd love to be able to do - “Yeah, we're just gonna write something that's gonna have this crossover appeal”. But it was actually the opposite.
M: In terms of ideas that I've had for lyrics and song ideas, it was probably more on the conceptual side than some of the other songs that we've written. Most of the stuff I’ve done had an intro and a verse, the chorus and a bridge, but this one isn’t like that. First of all, the song structure is weird. It's got these weird little talky skit bits in it.. people don't usually have the attention span for that kind of nonsense. I remember the moment when I had the idea, the lyrics were written, I wasn't happy with all of them yet, but I had this idea. I was setting my stuff up in Harry's studio and I was like, “Yeah, I've got this idea with these two characters that trade bars, and they're in a club, and it's a bit weird, but, you know… it might be alright, might be funny” - and that's what happened.
H: I think the interesting thing, as well, is that a lot of people probably aren't even aware that it’s a conversation between two people. That's kind of cool as well, that you can just take it purely at face value. It’s like, “Oh, this is a banger”, and that's what you can get from it. But, if you decide to listen a bit deeper, you'll pick up that there's actually back and forth between two characters. That's quite a nice thing about this tune, there's a bit more to it than meets the eye at first glance.
Yeah, I didn't catch that concept until the breakdown. Then I was like, “Ah, wait, one's taking their top off…” And then I caught what was going on. What does this success mean for future releases, is that something that you want to keep out of your mind, because it will taint the creative process?
H: We were never aiming to make a massive tune before, and I don't think there will be that pressure to repeat this. We've got an idea of what the next tracks are going to be, but it's not like, “Okay, now we need to make a tune that's going to be bigger than this”. If what we put out next gets another good response, that's great, but we're not suddenly going to be trying to write massive tunes, because then it just becomes really obvious, and you're chasing. People will see through it as well, like, “Oh, are they just going to make ‘Sweatbox Mark II’?!” We’re not going to do that, because it was just one of those things that just kind of happened. What do you think, Mikey?
M: I think so, too. Whilst it wasn't engineered for the huge audience that it has now, I think the closer we can get to remaining as open and experimental as we can, creatively, the better. Will it affect how we write songs? I don't know. It might subconsciously, but…
H: I think it probably will. It's bound to have some kind of impact. Even if we don't acknowledge it head on, it will be in the background
In terms of the response that you've had, and the support, etc, has anything really blown your mind or even surprised you in terms of the DJs that have been playing it, or the feedback you've had online? Or have you had any labels that have got in touch saying, “We want you to do stuff for us.”?
H: Yeah, there was a bit of a bidding war, which was the most intense two weeks that I think we've ever had to go through. If you told me the week before that, in the course of this next week, there's going to be all these record labels that are going to come in, and there's going to be these sums of money being waved in your face and stuff… It was so out of nowhere. It's just been mad, seeing these videos of the reception it gets in clubs. The initial plan for this track was that we were gonna put it up as a digital download on Bandcamp. There was no plan beyond that, and it grew progressively, week on week, into this thing that it became.
M: That element is a huge part of why it's gone where it's gone. It’s like this weird club singalong tune… I mean, seeing people sing along, and Enzo Siragusa reloading it in a house night, those moments have been wild. Talking to people about it, seeing people filming themselves, lip syncing my lyrics… bizarre! It’s an experience seeing all these people having fun.
That's what you want. It's the ultimate, really - put something out there, and people respond in a very positive way, because it's touched them…
H: We never pushed it, in that sense. It was all down to DJs pushing it, and the response from the crowd that took it to where it’s gone. We never thought, “Right, we need to be thinking about who we’re sending this to.” The only strategy was not to send it to loads of people. We wanted to keep it tight.
Ultimately, it doesn't really matter whether something is mainstream or underground or what your intention is, because it’s the people who decide. The music gets played, it catches them, and whatever the response is, it's down to them. You do your part by doing your best to create something that you enjoy yourself. But how that resonates with the people out there is really up to them. And it's amazing, isn't it, when something can really cut through and touch so many people and have the kind of response that ‘Sweatbox’ has had? And you guys have experienced yourselves. But you can't control it. That's the thing, isn't it?
H: Yeah, I don't really feel I have any particular ownership of it anymore. Now it's out there, whatever it does next is down to the will of the crowd. Wherever they decide it's gonna go is where it's gonna go.
What have you lot got cooking next then?
H: Like I said, we've got an idea of what one of the next tunes is going to be. When Mikey’s over in June, we'll get some studio time in. Mikey, you've got a few things coming out with other people as well, haven’t you?
M: Yeah, I just finalised that last night. Actually got a tune with an artist called Shimizu in Berlin. He's just done a little run where he's working with different vocalists. He's a really, really good producer, and he's working for a label in Berlin. It's a kind of lovesongy-garage, spoken-wordy-dreamy tune. That's finished now and should be coming out in the next month or two. I've been in Austin for about seven months and me and Harry are now trying to, transatlantically, keep the momentum up. It’s not as easy, we’re just kinda pointing at screens, and working around the time difference but we’ll make it work. But I’m looking forward to seeing what comes up from us both separately as well. We’re both working on some other different types of music. Harry works with other people as well. It’s all looking good.
LP Recommendations
Wamdue Kids
Wamdue Works
[!K7 Records]
In typical style for me, I went rabbit holing on the Wamdue Kids recently. I all started with this. Although I embarked on a similar deep research mission with Chris Brann’s solo alias Wamdue Project a few years ago, as well, I managed to completely miss the Wamdue Kids backstory. Anyway, I bought this album and another one of their LPs, These Branching Moments, too. I’m totally hooked on this album - from ‘Panic’ and ‘Seasick’, which get me so amped, through to more mellow cuts like ‘That’s The Feeling’ and ‘Deep Dreams’. Peak quality 1996 flavours. I found the CD for less than a fiver on eBay, so do some digging around if you’re keen to pick it up. The CD has more tunes on it than the vinyl release, as well. That ‘In My Soul’ record though… might take me a year of saving up the pennies for that one!
Sherelle
With A Vengeance
[Method 808]
Sherelle is my G, I love her, so I was very pleased when I got the announcement that she’d dropped a surprise album. I saw her at Warehouse Project towards the end of last year and we had a mutual exchange about experiencing difficulties over the past few years - which, for her, were the fuel behind this album. As many artists do, she alchemised her struggles into positivity and put together this excellent album. It ticks all the boxes for me - lots of energy, bouncing around and testing the boundaries of breakbeat, a bit of ragga, some soul and a general atmosphere that speaks to Sherelle’s sharp knowledge of her roots. Some people do it proper, Sherelle is one of them. She just gets it and channels her knowing into music that is wholly an extension of herself and her lineage.
Mixes I’ve Been Rinsin’
You know the drill by now. I’m forever listening to mixes online, I’m such a glutton for them. My daily soundtrack is 75% mixes, 20% tunes on my laptop and 5% audio books/podcasts. I don’t ever listen to the radio, which is odd considering I grew up on it. Maybe I should be listening to the radio? If anyone has any recommendations, I’m (quite literally) all ears…
Gene On Earth @TheLotRadio 04-16-2025
Bloody love this guy’s mixes. Gene On Earth is a masterful digger and it shows in his selections. Never fails to baffle and impress me in equal measure. Endlessly enjoyable. I’m still refining my vinyl mixing skills, so watching someone like Gene flex with his records so smoothly is inspiring, too.
Nathan Coles Late Night Sessions mix Kiss 100, 2001
Parallel to Wamdue Kids, I’ve been on a massive Nathan Coles/Wiggle flex lately. There are so many of his tunes that I’m just in love with. Nice to hear his voice on this guest appearance on Dave Mothersole’s Kiss FM show. It’s a blinding mix as well, some crackers in there. Get it on, now!
Adam Shelton (Swing Dash Radio)
I’ve been a fan of Adam’s for a long while, I used to play a lot of his tunes in the early-mid 2010s. I was an avid follower of his label One Records and went to quite a few of their parties. A couple of years ago, Adam and I happened to be on the same Vipassana course, so we bonded after that and supported each other through the aftermath. Anyway, this is a quality mix that demonstrates his penchant for quality sounds across the electronic spectrum. Especially feeling all the electro bits.
Rebelpod 13: Shaun Reeves - ‘Love at 120BPM’
Shaun Reeves is an absolute boss. I remember catching him play a pre-party in the lead up to Circoloco opening back in 2014 and it was a masterful set. This podcast, from the old Crosstown Rebels “Rebelpod” series, has been a favourite of mine since it dropped well over a decade ago. Track selection is exquisite, and the last tune…. palpitations.
Circoloco @ DC10 - 10 Years Anniversary - Part 1 of 3 mixed by Tania Vulcano - Disc 1 (2008)
One of the core members of the Circoloco DJ family, Tania Vulcano is a true legend. This mix is from a CD released to celebrate the Ibiza party brand’s 10th anniversary in 2008. It really encapsulates a formative era, when Circoloco experienced a lot of difficulties and minimal was still just about dominating, but a new wave of musical styles, and artists, were coming through. Exciting and definitive recording, from a real master.
Thugfucker Tag Team DJ Set - Live @ Bionic - San Francisco - January 2010
This duo thrived on their one-for-one tag team sets and this is a perfect representation of why they loved them so much. It is quite literally tune after tune, rolling through some incredible music from the turn of the decade. 2010 was an interesting time, as mentioned above there was a new wave coming through, but, like the beginning of most decades, remnants of the decade that has just passed were still very present. The transition period always makes for an interesting melting pot.
Do We Really Need To Keep Up This War On Commercial Electronic Music?
We all saw that meme that was going around the other week bemoaning influencers, the apparent “whitewashing” of the word ‘rave’ and the so-called “DJ scene” being a parody of itself. The meme itself came across like a parody to me. I don’t usually weigh into these pointless online flare ups, because they’re incessant in their inability to speak from nuance and to look at the world beyond their precious bubble (which is always being threatened by some external force). I’m not even going to share the meme, because, honestly, it’s so generic I could probably dredge something up from someone in the 2010s lamenting the rise of EDM and it would basically be saying the same thing.
On this occasion, for whatever reason - probably just annoyance that people are still spouting off about these things - I felt compelled to respond on one person’s post of the meme. This person (shout to Paul Nolan) had a similar response to me, and I applaud him for that. Here’s the comment I posted:
“This "us VS them" mentality has been inherent in the culture for such a long time now and you know what, it's fucking BORING. It was there in the acid house time, when people started charting. Then the era of the superstar DJ, the rise of so-called EDM and now again with the influence of social media.
In a similar vein to everyone saying "look, not a phone in sight" on all the old school footage floating around, this perpetual complaining about a world that caters for people with different tastes to us is grindingly miserable.
There will always, ALWAYS be a part of our world that is rooted in superficiality, not everyone can be "underground" and uphold the virtues that we from the "true rave culture" apparently embody. And that's ok. That stuff will appeal to its market, and the so-called underground will appeal to those who feel it, too. As you [Paul] said, sometimes the commercial stuff can be a gateway too.
It doesn't have to be so adversarial. Stop making enemies of people who are simply different to you, with different motivations. Just do your thing, get on with your life and stop wasting energy on complaining about something that's never going to go away. Transmute that energy into making a positive contribution to the scene you're connected to and stop worrying about what other people are doing.
Ultimately, we're all different. While you don't have to necessarily LIKE the way some people have warped what this thing is supposed to be about, it's way better to find a way to accept it and do your utmost to stay true to the values of the culture you're committed to.”
Interested to hear what you all have to say about this. As long as we live in a society driven by capitalism and commerciality, then this antithesis to underground ideals will always exist. We don’t have to agree with it, or like it, but getting agitated about it and whingeing solves nothing. Direct your anger into creating solutions, not just “angry person shouting at a cloud” energy.
One More Tune!
I had a chat with Stretch from Detroit a couple of weeks ago and he kindly sent me a couple of his sets that he hasn’t released publicly (cheers, dude!). I think this tune was on both of them! I heard it way back in 2011 on a Dyed Soundorom set, and have loved it ever since. Delano at his best. Dreamy, hypnotic, perfection. Until next time………